sugar withdrawal symptoms?

[Jules]

I was told by our Naturopath to remove sugar from my son's diet.  Today was the first day and he hasn't felt very well.  Can anyone tell me if they have removed sugar how long the withdrawal symptoms were and if it made the tics worse?

Thank you, Jules

[Caryn]

Jules,
I think the naturopath may be concerned about candida overgrowth. Was that mentioned?
If the problem involves candida then there is a good chance you will see a slight increase in symptoms initially, because candida feeds on sugar in the diet. You should ask your naturopath why the no sugar diet was suggested. If candida dies off quickly that may cause a regression for a few weeks. There are lots of technical reasons for this (Candida-- a fungus-- will produce toxic waste that the body needs to eliminate and if it is overwhelmed with waste then you will see a child with 'flu-like' symptoms and VERY VERY irritable.) Your child may be Tired, suffer from headaches, and be very gassy (and odorific!)....
Enzymes are supposed to help, as is molybdenum (prescribed by our Dan doc). Do call and inquire for specifics. I hate when that happens-- you always find yourself thinking all the good questions after you've left the office!
Caryn

[Jules]

He didn't mention candida.  He did run several tests through blood work.  Unfortunately we couldn't get back in until the middle of May for results.  He said no sugar as he could tell my son was hyper, nervous and thought it might have to do with his excessive sugar intake.  I decided to let him have just a small amount  of sugar twice a day for a couple of weeks and then will reduce that even more. 

[Caryn]

Are you eliminating corn syrup etc, too?
For us the corn sweeteners did more damage than actual sugar, but that is because of Tigger's corn allergy. Did he give you guidelines? Did he say that fruit was okay? How about juice? I'm hoping Terri pops in on this one as she has a lot of low sugar experience. We include maple syrup in the diet and allow fruit sugars, honey. We did do a candida cleanse type diet in the beginning and it was a low sugar diet (sugar only in natural foods like fruit). We did see an increase in symptoms before we saw improvement, but we were doing more than just a low sugar diet so it is hard to tell what caused what.
I hope your little guy feels better soon. Withdrawal is not fun.

[Jules]

Yes, we have already eliminated corn syrup.  We follow the Feingold diet pretty much, except for too much sugar.  The doctor didn't give any guidelines other than to cut the sugar out.  Until we see him again for results I am going to allow him maple syrup, honey and fruit.  Today went much better so hopefully it won't be too hard on him.  Thanks for your help.

[Terri]

I know that *I* was a raving, cranky lunatic for about a week when I cut out all sugar (from *all* sources except for a serving or two of fruit everyday).  I really felt terrible - but it gradually got to the point where I felt better than I could remember.  J seemed to get more irritable and weepy - the tired, worn-out, I'm catching something kind of irritable.  It's hard for me to remember how long that lasted because he was pretty little when we did it initially and hard to judge which behaviors were die-off and which were normal, frustrated, little-guy behaviors.

Sweeteners that we've used -- honey, stevia, and xylitol (in small amounts), fruit juice, applesauce.  I just added maple syrup back last night (we had pancakes for dinner, which is always a bigger hit that pancakes for breakfast!)

If you're looking for anything in particular (to satisfy a craving, etc), give a shout and we can brainstorm on suggestions.  For now, keep your head low and push on through.    Sugar withdrawal can be rough, but it's worth it, IMO.

[Caryn]

I learned this weekend at the Natural Treatments for Tics, Tourettes, OCD and Depression in Dallas that sugar has a high fungal count and this may be why it has to be cut out and why eliminating it may cause bad symptoms. Fungi are living organisms and eliminating sugar may cause bad die off symptoms.

[justinekno]

I wrote about my son a while back and I thought I would just give a quick update.

We saw a naturopath dr last month and it was an interesting visit. She did an exam and said he had some gut issues (we have intestinal disease in the family) and some vitamin deficiencies and a post nasal drip. She could tell the vitamin deficiencies by seeing white spots on his nails.

She recommended calcium (we aren't doing dairy right now), DF Bifidus Ultra Flor, cod liver oil (for the nervous system) and elimination of wheat. We had already done the ALCAT testing which showed alot of food sensitivities but since she uses Enterolab for her testing, she is not 100% comfortable with the ALCAT results but we will use them for now. She also recommended eliminating sugar (for nervous system) and suggested using local raw honey. She said our bodies do better with local foods.

We left her office with a sheet she gave us about removing gluten so I wasn't sure if she wanted us to go gluten free or just wheat free (one of those questions you remember AFTER the appt!). We went ahead and removed most gluten, just to be safe. After being on supplements for a week or so, my son developed a nasty bug - diarrhea and vomiting (no fever) and so we have backed off on the cod liver oil (reg dr said it might impact the diarrhea subsiding) and my son can't stand taking it anyway. I might hold off on giving it to him until our visit next week. He is such a trooper taking all these supplements and trying different foods but the cod liver oil is one he fights me on and I don't know if it is even helping him.

The interesting thing is that when my son gets any kind of bug where he can't each much, the tics subside. This time was no different. Once he starts eating again, the tic starts back up. I tried to watch this time to see what he was eating when they first started again but it's so hard to determine what that one ingredient is, if it is just one or a culmination of ingredients. So frustrating. So that's it for now, still plugging along but definitely seeing some improvement just nothing drastic.

[Caryn]

Justine,

I learned quite a bit over the weekend about fungi and how they may contribute to digestive issues and ticcing. There are over 400 fungi that can harm the body so a negative candida result would not over-rule the fungus problem.

I have heard of and have actually witnessed in my own son the tic cessation phenomena when a fever is present and he is not eating. The fever is good for fighting infection and the lack of ticcing could have to do with immunity and not food, too. But your suspicions may be true too. I could never figure it out myself.

If there is a fungal issue you may benefit from removing certain foods, not based on allergy results but because they are loaded with fungus and could be exasperating things in general.
Sugar is very bad and so are peanuts, wheat, and corn, according to one of the speakers I heard last weekend. You may not need to eliminate gluten for genetic reasons (if that's what all the testing shows) but it is full of fungal organisms due to the way it is harvested and stored. This is why Doug Kaufmann is against it--  a reason completely different from a celiac perspective. Folks with fungal overgrowth issues have to eliminate sugar, grains, starches, and certain fruits/nuts that might contribute to the 'diet' of the organism that is attacking them.

Try kefir for the diarrhea if it doesn't stop after all the other treatments. Give at least 2 cups of it. It may be that your son is lacking good bacteria and needs it to ward off the viral/fungal/bacterial attack. You can get goat kefir but I think I would do whatever is convenient if need be.

I'm not sure how helpful I've been. I'm just fascinated by this new information and am really interested in researching more on it.

Caryn

[justinekno]

It is all so interesting yet very confusing. My son actually didn't have the fever with his stomach bug (he's better now although back to being constipated, ugh!) so that's why I was leaning towards a food but who knows.

Have you heard of the DF Bifidus Ultra Flor? The dr told my son he should be pooping every day - her words to him! Before the stomach bug happened, he had  become more regular. He's just starting to eat normal again so hopefully that will work itself out.

Do you know how long it takes for wheat or gluten to leave the system? I'm just wondering at what point you say that wheat isn't the issue. The dr did mention trying other supplements and doing some bloodwork but she wanted to start small and try to use a couple of supplements that would tackle the whole picture and see how that goes at first.

Did they say what fruits to avoid? My son loves fruit and I was wondering about salacytates but I never thought about fungi.  The dr did say that 70% of the immune system is in your gut so alot of times if there's an issue with the gut, then it transfers to the neurological system.

I'm so glad you were able to attend the conference. It's great to hear that so much research is now being done in this area.

Justine

[Caryn]

I've never heard of DF bifidus Ultra flor. 
We had the opposite problem-- our son had loose stools and several a day. He is now regular too. We used Threelac and enzymes. We do neither now unless we are at a restaurant, then I will give enzymes.

For us it was nine months until our son really turned the corner.

Low glutathione is common with kids suffering from T.S. I don't know if your doctor wants to consider running the Organic Acid Test through Great Plains, but it is a urine test and can be done from home. It gives nutrient deficiency levels and checks for candida/bacteria. It will also show glutathione level.

We thought salicylates were a problem. Doesn't seem to bother him now. You know, it could be the sugar in the fruit and not the salicylate-- it is hard to know. Use your instincts. At one point I was so overwhelmed I thought just about everything that poor kid put into his mouth caused a reaction. Your doctor sounds very sensible. I know you want the tics to go away as fast as possible. It is frustrating waiting for them to subside and eventually go away.

Food hypersensitivity is on the rise in America. Allergies do start in the gut. Be patient!

Are you avoiding yeast too?

[justinekno]

Caryn,

Apparently the bifidus is the good bacteria that you find in some yogurts. It is supposed to heal the gut. We aren't avoiding yeast at this point but I will ask the dr about doing the Organic Acid Test. Thanks.

The interesting development is that my son woke up again this morning with vomiting and diarrahea. The symptoms are the same as when he had it a week ago - vomiting in the morning and then feeling okay until bedtime w/ no fever just a stomachache. It made me think that maybe the bifidus was bothering him (he takes it twice a day). The only other supplement is Rainbow Light Calcium. But then I read your article about corn and molds and it got me thinking. We are definitely doing more corn products now since he can't have wheat, rice, soy and dairy. But what's interesting is that the ALCAT test showed that he has a moderate reaction to Aspergillus - the mold you mentioned with the corn.

I have a call into our naturopathic dr to see what she thinks about the supplement causing the upset stomach but now I want to ask about the corn/mold theory also.

Justine

[Caryn]

Justine,

In the beginning my son "tigger" had the exact same symptoms when he got cross contamination-- throwing up and/or explosive diarrhea. Now all that is gone. The handful of times he has had wheat or corn in the last six months there has been no signs of either. He did have constipation after a Dunkin Donut he ate at school a couple of months ago. (Said it didn't have a label on it so he thought it was okay).

Initially we gave up corn, yeast (it was on the IgG) peanuts (IgG again) and sugars and milk (as per the DAN dr.) Our son's IgG did not show milk but the doc thought it was important to add to the avoidance list because he had leaky gut symptoms.

I really believe now that mold was an issue with him. I can't prove it, but the diet we went on kind of eliminated the main mold sources in his food.  We did a candida test but it was four months after his diet change and the result was negative, yet he still had reactions when I tried to reintroduce some of those moderate "moldy" allergies 6 and 9 mos later.

It is weird. I can't prove it, but I definitely have my suspicions. I have binged on corn chips, etc... a few times over the last year and every morning after I've had a really puffed up face. I'm just not that into corn anymore.

I can't remember if you did a pyroluria test or not. Most of these kids have low glutathione, and some test positive for pyroluria. It is not on the OAT but if the results show low glutathione, low C, low B6 I would say you may want to look into testing for that next. Our son is doing great on a low maintenance dose of n-acetyl cysteine for glutathione. I skip it on the weekends and give only 1/4 a capsule a day for him along with his diet.

I looked at Rainbow Light Calcium online. I don't recognize anything that would make me suspect it would be a problem as far as other ingredients. Your son could use more magnesium. Most folks like to have a 2:1 ration of Mag to Cal for tics/tourettes.

The yogurt could be a problem. Read the package and see if there is other stuff in there that you suspect-- a lot of time they add cornstarch, pectins, etc.... Some folks use a non-dairy probiotic. Kombocha is supposed to be good for you too. They have that at Whole foods. A woman on another list is making her own with coconut milk. You could easily do that with a yogurt maker.  You could add some of the yogurt you have with the bifidus and culture it with your new base-- coconut milk, goat milk, whatever you want to try. You can also buy starter probiotic powders at any healthfood stores. You make it like 'friendship bread'-- remember that? You just make a batch and when it is almost gone you take the last bit out to help you make a new batch.....

We did homemade goat yogurt with our son during the healing phase after the first nine months of GFCF when we felt his gut was healed better. He stayed on that for almost a year. Now we buy regular kefir and he gets it every day w/o problems. So things will get better.

To this day we still avoid yeast. We only allow occasional pizza with it. I think he is better off. I tried the gluten free beer about a 1 1/2 yrs ago and it made me get the WORST headache of all time. So I definitely think there is something up with me, my son, and mycotoxins.

On the bright side, today was his kindy graduation. We were all asked to bring something. The table was laden with cakes, cookies, brownies, etc.... I brought a fruit salad. It was the first to go.  :>)
(I also grabbed a few GFCFMF brownies out of my freezer. Tigger was happy. The other two were dying from the temptations.)

Caryn

[justinekno]

Caryn,

Congrats on kindy graduation. I have an older son who graduated from high school last year - it all goes by so fast!

The bifidus is actually a dairy free powder that I purchased from the dr's office. The dr left me a message (the one time I step outside of the house today, she calls!) and said she didn't think it could be the calcium or bifidus but to stop both for 5 days and see what happens. The funny thing is that my son told me this morning that he thought it was the cereal he ate last night before bed (w/out milk) - it was corn based! He has been fine all day like nothing happened. He did have alot of corn last night - corn pasta, corn chips and then the cereal, all within a 3 hour span.

How soon after ingesting corn did your son get an upset stomach? I just stopped keeping a food diary for him after we started going to the naturopath dr - it just got so tedious after 4 months but now I'm wishing I never stopped. Ugh.

We didn't eliminate corn because the ALCAT test said it was fine but then again, if you have the mold issue and he tested positive for that, then it might make sense. I was talking to a friend today who said that she has a friend who had to give up high mold foods, one being cantelope. My son LOVES cantelope.

His candida test came back negative so that's interesting. This is good information though that you have given me and I will mention it all to the dr when we see her on 6/8.

I was going to pick up the book on tics/tourettes by Sheila Rogers. Did you find it helpful or full of stuff that we already see on the internet? I think I have to order as our Borders didn't have it.

Thank you for the encouraging words. I think you have done an amazing job learning what your sons needs are. He's lucky to have you for a mom.

Justine

[Caryn]

He says he would pretty much notice right away. Once he ate GF (supposedly) at Burger King (in the beginning) and he puked pretty violently almost exactly 1 hr afterward and for almost three hours repeatedly. No fever, etc... Was perfectly fine the next day. The diarrhea usually came around 12 hrs after the food was eaten and would last almost an entire day with accidents or near misses it was that loose and watery.

I would be more inclined to keep up the supps and ditch the corn before doing it the other way around. Trust your gut.

Cantelope gave me itchy, fat lips when I was a girl. I will have to dig out my son's IgG. I am wondering if aspergillus is on there?

Thanks.

[justinekno]

We are on day three of the diarrhea and as far as I know, he is not eating any corn. Although the pizza sauce I used on his GF pizza last night had citric acid listed as an ingredient. Can that be corn?

I'm now wondering if it could be another case of the stomach bug but that just seems odd. A woman on the Feingold board suggested yeast die off due to the bifidus but we haven't eliminated yeast. Did your son's diarrhea episodes relating to corn come and go quickly? What a puzzle this is. We did stop the supplements and will start them back once this clears up, stay off of corn and then see what happens.

Justine

[Caryn]

Justine,

Hm.

A lot of things could cause the diarrhea. Yeast die off is possible. C-diff is possible (that's a bad bacteria in the intestines). Could be too much fiber and not enough fat. A simple reason would be that you are supplementing with too much magnesium. That has a laxative effect. So does too many fruits like grapes and watermelon. You are changing the diet quiet a bit so the system is bound to be out of whack. If loose stools are the only symptom then I would think it was diet related, especially if there isn't explosive, really watery stools and there isn't a really foul smell to them.

Check out this link:

http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtstools.htm

See if you can't figure a few things out by reading a few topics over there. There are so many kinds of diarrhea and possible causes.

That's a great website and has lots of information in general on the digestive system and dysbiosis. I spent a lot of time there in the beginning when strange symptoms would appear and I didn't have a clue what was going on. The beginning was really scary for us. Our son was eliminating undigested food on a regular basis at one point. We incorporated digestive enzymes eventually and that helped things move along better. If the intestines are damaged (as they are in celiac and crohns), then it takes a while for the villi (protective 'hairs') to unflatten and start to do their job again. So weird stuff happens. It is frustrating and nerve wrecking.

Yes, citric acid is most often derived from corn. Tomato sauce is bad for some folks on the Feingold diet due to the high level of salicylates in it. I'm not sure about either actually causing diarrhea, though. Citric acid was more of a problem neurologically for us than digestively.

Hope this helps.

[justinekno]

 My son's diarrhea and vomiting does have a different type of odor that I never smelled before. Even my husband commented that the vomiting smelled exactly like it did last week, something he would never forget. The diarrhea is very watery and he is having small accidents while sleeping - even again early this morning. He did have watermelon Saturday night at a neighbor's house and diarrhea immediately after. So perhaps the tomatoes and the watermelon was too much for him.

Thank you for the info on the website. I will check it out and perhaps give a call to the naturopath dr.

Justine