Successful Enzymes?

[heveritt]

Ok, so I have not been on in a while. Had to travel for work, flu in the house, yada, yada, yada. I have been reading here and there and can not remember where I saw the post talking about a new enzyme out. As I was walking around Whole Foods tonight, starving, looking for something to feed everyone for dinner that was egg free, gf and cf I was wishing I had some of these.

I would do anything to just be able to buy a gluten free crust pizza with regular cheese everyonce and a while. It is impossible to find a gf/cf frozen pizza. Since I work and I am a horrible cook, I look for these convencince foods around.

Anyone successfully using them for dairy and eggs?

Thanks!

[ives6797]

I'm not using it yet (and I know nothing baout egg-free), but I wonder if the enzyme you are talking about is the new TriEnza from Houston.

http://houstonzymes.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=tri

NEW! BROAD SPECTRUM COMBINATION OF OUR BEST ENZYMES!

Breaks down proteins, carbs, and fats
High Protease, DPP IV and Carbohydrase Product
Contains ALL of the DPP IV as in AFP Peptizyde for exorphin peptide digestion
TWO sizes: 90 (HN005-90) or 180 (HN005-180) capsules per bottle = 45 or 90 doses per bottle,respectively
No added cellulase enzyme minimizes any potential interference with time-released medications
No fillers
TriEnza is the long-awaited enzyme product that combines the best of AFP-Peptizyde, Zyme Prime, and No-Fenol into one product!

Two (2) capsules of TriEnza contain:

all the protease enzymes for protein digestion from AFP-Peptizyde
all the enzymes (except cellulase) from Zyme Prime
1/2 the enzymes from No-Fenol (xylanase) for certain fruits and vegetables high in phenols
In addition, no fillers are added. Cellulase enzyme was not added to this product so you don't have to worry about using TriEnza with time-released medications.

No more splitting capsules to get "half doses". One capsule (one-half dose) makes starting enzymes easier.

Best of all, the price of TriEnza makes it less expensive compared to buying all three of our other products.

Dosing Chart for getting started.

Who should use TriEnza?
Anyone who uses any two of our current enzyme products (Peptizyde, AFP Peptizyde, Zyme Prime, HN-Zyme Prime, and No-Fenol) will most likely benefit from a cost-savings standpoint. If a customer is using 3 or more HNI enzyme products, a definite cost savings will be realized.

TWO (2) capsules of TriEnza contain:
Peptidase with DPP IV..................50,000 HUT
DPP IV.............................................1200 DPPU
Protease 800...................................65,000 HUT
Protease 6.0....................................25,000 HUT
Amylase.........................................12,000 DU
Glucoamylase.......................................25 AGU
Alpha-galactosidase............................200 GalU
Xylanase........................................16,000 XU
Beta-glucanase......................................30 BGU
Lactase..............................................1500 ALU
Lipase..................................................200 FIP


OTHER INGREDIENTS: Capsule composed of vegetable cellulose (from pine trees) and water. Medium chain triglyceride oil, purified from coconut. Appx. 1 mg/capsule. The oil keeps the enzyme dust compacted.

TriEnza is free of gluten, casein, soy, rice, MSG, salicylates, sugars, yeast, animal derivatives, and artificial colors. No filler.

[Caryn]

Yep! Yep, and YEP!
We are using Houston's Trienza, the new one with gluten free pizza, lasagna, etc...
It works.
We are not doing foods with gluten or corn.... *yet*

Not sure I want to try that, as those are his two main triggers.

But we can definitely do the milk w/o the "Tigger" effect. I am very happy about that.

We are not giving him the enzymes with every meal, or every day. I keep them as my go to when we go out. We successfully ate at the Olive Garden again for my grandmother's birthday Saturday. He got two enzymes and ate off of the gluten free menu. He also had my homemade gluten and corn free lasagna that afternoon-- loaded with three kinds of cheese-- and there was no difference in him and no digestive issues.

I like the product, but it is pricey. This is why we reserve it for when we need it.

Yes, I think you might be happy with it if you try it. We did wait almost a year after beginning the GF MF diet before introducing them. The manufacturer said that some families find that their kids can't handle it when they initially try, but then after some time GFCF (or whatever they need) they can return to it 6 months later with success.
Caryn

[Terri]

We're going to be using Enzymedica Digest Gold http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=7056.  The cost per bottle is more ($62.38 for 180 capsules), but the individual capsules are more potent.  I initially bought them because they have a large amount of glucoamylase per capsule (50 AG as opposed to 25 AG in the TriEnza).  My only concern is capsule size -- but I suppose I'll just open them up and mix them with applesauce or honey if they are too big.  My DH will be taking them along with J, so I'm hoping this will give us more bang for our buck.

I'm glad this is working out for you, Caryn.  If this lets me add back occasional organic sugars (maple syrup and cane), I'll be thrilled.  I'm really hoping they help cut back on the undigested 'stuff' which should help with feeding any candida.  Like you, I don't want them for every meal - but it would be nice to not have to worry as much when we can't control for every possible offender.

Edited to add:  they just arrived.  Capsules are approx 2 cm (3/4 ins) long and about 1/2 cm wide.  J should be able to swallow these without much of a problem.

[heveritt]

Great, thanks for the information everyone. Now I just have to figure out what I want to do. He has only been GF and CF since Christmas so maybe I should wait longer. I let him have McD's fry's this weekend (they contain Milk), but I was thinking, How much could it really be? Well he was a little onthe Jeckle and Hyde side today, so it must be enough.

Thanks again for the info! I will order them and give them a try myself. I would love to eat an egg again and not feel like I got run over by a truck after.

[ives6797]

Caryn, when you say that he can have milk with out his usual issues, what do you mean? Is it hyperactivity? Back a few months ago I wanted to see what dairy did to Anthony (I had taken him off gluten AND dairy all at once and wondered if dairy was a problem or if we could just do GF instead)... found it milk is definitely a problem... not sure so much with teh tics, but with the ADHD... he was on milk for only a few days but it was a rough time... took about a week afterwards to get back to typical (which yes is still ADHD Anthony but it wasn't nearly as bad). During the time I was giving him milk, I did not give him any enzymes because it was a test to see if dairy affected him. I wonder if I can try a small amount of milk/yogurt/ice cream or something with enzymes-- sometimes. Eventually I'd like to try to TriEnza instead but I have a couple more unopened bottles of AFP Peptizyde still to use. He can't swallow pills yet so I think I'll have to put it in applesauce or something.

[Caryn]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this thread. We've had a busy 10 days. BIL flew out this evening and the boys are sad. I just wanted to report back on my 10 day 'test' so to speak with the Trienza. We really did a more regular trial on the stuff (still only dairy knowingly, but much more daring on the restaurant fare (with definite gluten/corn cross contamination and possible corn ingestion.)
What we discovered:

• 1. We had to put Tigger back on his pyroluria vits and GABA.
• 2. He was wetting the bed regularly (every night without fail)
• 3. He had insomnia again
• 4. His tics resurfaced (slight eye blinking and shoulder shrugging).

Tigger was really doing a good job trying to conceal it but I called him on it and he admitted it. It was very very slight, but resurfaced none-the-less. I mean, my BIL never noticed them and it wasn't an issue really, but after having seen nothing for 3 months I couldn't help but conclude that jumping off the diet bandwagon and using the enzymes was not as good as the strict diet for keeping him healthy, happy, and tic free.

My musings:
Perhaps the enzymes help to break down the proteins, but something is not allowing him to properly absorb adequate nutrients when he is eating a typical fare and taking them. Is this because his body needs the organics, the whole foods, and when he eats 'restaurant-fare' foods (even gluten free) he is filling up on calories that omit the vital Bs, Magnesium, and Zinc? Are the actual allergens causing mood issues despite the use of the enzymes? (re: milk, corn, especially since I wasn't monitoring those two as closely as gluten) Again, is it a celiac thing? Was he unduly stressed because he had to give up his room for his uncle? Or is he just fighting off an invisible virus unknown to us?
Hm....
My conclusion so far:
I think the enzymes do work in moderation-- to a point..... and I am not sure what that point is.....
All I know is that he did not get physically sick from eating out, a major improvement. But eating out with enzymes three times in a weekend was too much for him. (Two restaurants in one day. The first was safe IMO, as we have done it before and they know the drill-- clean the utensils, clean the grill). The second was a buffet style dinner. (Hate those!) Hm.... I really firmly believe that strict adherence to the diet is the best way to go, inconvenient-- yes, but most effective in keeping him physically and emotionally happy.
Caryn
Anyone have any similar/different experiences? I would love to get your thoughts, etc....
And I will post again when he settles down, ie: how long it takes, use/discontinuation of the vits, etc....

[Terri]

We have had a lot of success with our enzyme trial around here - both for J and my DH (who has been losing more and more foods from his diet the past few years!)  My DH has told me that we need to keep a steady supply of our enzymes (Enzymedica Digest Gold) because they have made a *substantial* difference for him.  He is a man who has more 'digestive aids' than our local pharmacy, just to make it through the day.  They have been a lifesaver for him.  Of course, I've been suggesting he give this a try for a looooong time, but we'll just let him think he discovered his own cure. 

As far as J is concerned, his tics are basically gone (or at least not noticeable).  We let him have a ton of 'bad stuff' over the Easter holiday and made sure we took our enzymes with us.   At this point, I'm going to keep him on a modified SCD -- allowing dissacharides, but keeping the polysaccharides away.  I'm still feeling very strongly that Js issues all stem from keeping his gut flora in check (candida and/or overgrowth issues).  For us, the issues are not the *proteins* in the foods -- it's the carbs (sugars/starches).  Carbs go undigested, feed the yeasties in the gut and start the cascade of symptoms.  I think the enzymes are basically eliminating the 'food' for the bacteria by getting rid of any undigested material much faster than Js little body can manage.  We're going to add some more fermented foods to his diet as well.

[Caryn]

Terri,
Tell me more! Tigger had dark circles under his eyes just before he started ticcing. I did catch him and his cohort (Chuckles) under the kitchen table chewing a pack of gum they found. It did have corn and yellow #5 in the ingredient listing.
He had no known other 'exposure' without the enzymes as far as I know. He didn't swallow the gum, either. Explain to me exactly how you administer and exactly what kind of enzymes you use. We have capsules. I have been giving him them just prior to eating each time.
I know that kids with tics generally have sensitivities to artificial ingredients. Tigger tested high against Yellow #5 and sodium nitrate, and he reacts badly to sodium benzoate.
I wonder if the restaurant food was just high in these chemicals and thus caused a reaction? We were served a buffet that included ham and turkey. Both meats reminded me of deli style in flavor and texture. I knew when we plated them that they were probably very chemically laden. I am so confused about what would have caused this.....
They seemed to be working when I used them with dairy at home. Does your dh eat grains with them? Could you ask him if there are any side effects or if he would get a 'reaction' to chemical foods like lunch meat? BIL did have off diet foods around but we were very careful to keep it locked away. I don't think he ate anything without the enzymes here at the house.
The tics were winding down yesterday. Dark circles are gone. I am still giving him the vits. His mood is much better since we uped the supps.
Caryn
Terri, what exactly do you do on holidays? We've typically done a restaurant every year with friends after church and a stop off at my parents. (Dh's family is not local and so visiting with friends has become a nice tradition).
Caryn

[Terri]

**My disclaimer is that we have tested negative for celiac, and that we have a known carbohydrate intolerance, which isn't an autoimmune thing.  Very, very different animal that just happens to have a lot of crossover symptoms and solutions.**

Let's start with a brief review of what J (and apparently my dh) are dealing with:

Carbohydrate Intolerance

The article mainly focuses on lactose intolerance, but the mechanics of what is going on, as well as the symptoms, are accurate to the best of my knowledge.

We use Enzymedica Digest Gold, 1 capsule just before eating anything with starch.  My dh is reporting that he ate a breaded chicken patty on a kaiser roll yesterday with *no* problems.  If he eats anything heavier (a bowl of pasta, for example), he gets 'stomach gurgles' and the uh-oh feeling, but it hasn't caused him any diarrhea.  This is a HUGE improvement for him.  Our speculation is that if he had taken 2 capsules, he may have been just fine.

Dh is the poster child for overgrowth issues (digestive problems, chronic sinus infections, fatigue, etc) and apparently his mother had a 'sensitive stomach' as well - which is how they described their symptoms for a long time.  With the enzymes, the bulk of his discomfort has been eliminated, with the exception of a reflux/acid problem that comes from eating tomatoes or anything acidic.

My hypothesis has always been that J and dh have a very similar (if not identical) condition.  Where dh just learned to live with it and think of it as normal, I was looking at Js diapers, etc saying that this was absolutely NOT normal.    Now that we've added the enzymes, dh is just *amazed* at how good he feels after eating.  He used to leave the table immediately after finishing his meal and lay on the sofa to 'recover' from eating.  Evil shrew of a wife didn't like that. 

J (who will be 6 in June) is reporting that the enzymes make his stomach feel really good and that his tics are gone, except for when he bumps into something.  If he bumps into something with his right arm, he is compelled to re-bump it with his left.  Oddly enough, this is something similar to what I've been doing since I was little.  I need things to be even.  Chewing especially.  Or scratching an itch.  My sister and I always joke about having mild OCD, so apparently J is just on the receiving end of 2 crazy sets of DNA.  Poor guy didn't stand a chance.  At least he didn't inherit my fear of cotton. 

We spent Easter with dh's family (father, stepmother, siblings, cousins, etc).  J ate salmon, green beans, salad -- but then wanted the stuffed shells and garlic bread that was also available.  My position when we are testing the dietary waters is that he can try what he chooses after he eats the healthier, better options that are available to him.  It makes it more difficult for him to overdo it on the 'bad stuff' he wants.  He ended up eating 1 shell and a small piece of garlic bread with no adverse reactions (but I gave him 2 enzyme capsules, instead of 1).  I also adopted a new strategy with the Easter candy - I let them eat it all as fast as they wanted in an attempt to get it all out of the house faster.  Better to let them go crazy for a couple of days rather than battle it out for a couple of weeks until it was all rationed out 'properly'.  Plus - we didn't get as much junk this year.  Mostly chocolate.  Hardly anything with artificial colors (can't control what came from 'other' Easter bunnies.) 

We typically don't have anything with artificial colors or preservatives, simply because they seem to have fallen off our radar after having such a strict dietary protocol for the last few years.  Those things just don't appeal to us at this point - which is good.  I think we've gotten used to our healthier alternatives and the boys have a pretty good understanding as to why we can't eat anything fluorescent in color, etc.  We get some funny looks when we run into the grocery store, because if J asks for GoGurt or Trix yogurt, for example, P will point out to him that it looks like it glows in the dark, so it's full of chemicals.  It's especially interesting when they make those comments while another mom is loading her cart full of the stuff.  They've made several people read the labels, which is kind of neat.  It has sparked some interesting conversations.  We used to visit a local produce stand and the boys would get excited over spaghetti squash and parsnips.  Apparently, that's a strange thing to witness.  lol  But the people who worked there loved them.

Ok - I'm rambling.  I'll knock it off.    The bottom line is that the enzymes seem to be working, in large part, I think, to the amount of glucoamylase (50 AG) and acidophilus (250 million CFU) in each capsule.

[Caryn]

Terri,
Thanks a million. It really helps to hear someone else's story, routine, experience.
I will look at the label on the Trienza more closely....
I'm now thinking the reaction was due to chemicals rather than gluten, corn, or dairy. Just a hunch. Tigger is very chemically sensitive. Even as a toddler, in my other life, he would have terrible insomnia and get strangely disconnected/hyper when I gave him cold/cough medicine. I would think, "This kid is supposed to be sick, yet he is climbing the walls and unable to sleep!" I mistakenly gave it to him once when we were on a transcontinental flight (over night) and he only slept 3 1/2 hours afterwards. Other moms would tell me that it would make their kids sleep better, that it was great for calming them down and getting them to rest when they are sick. Not Tigger. I always knew there was something different but couldn't put my finger on it...
He is tic free again today, totally himself again. In a really good mood, etc.... And I didn't even give him the pyroluria dose, just a healthy home cooked meal and fish oil so far. Will do, though. I want to keep him heading in the right direction....
Caryn
P.S. Oh, and I wanted to ask, what is the condition called? We do not have genetic TS in the family but sensitive stomachs are very common (my dad, brother, grandmother). No one has been tested for celiac, but I do have suspicions about wheat and corn issues....

[ives6797]

I noticed a post about enzymes/bedwetting on the yahoo enzyme group...

> My son is allergic to corn and I believe he may have issues with
> wheat/gluten as well. He has been basically corn free for the past 1
> 1/2 years. His behavior still was not always the best and had the
> occasional melt downs. Earlier this year he was muscle tested for
> allergies and wheat was found to be a problem. I decided to cut back
> on that and for a few months his bed wetting stopped. I decided to
> try Trienza because basically I want to be able to take my kids out
> and eat every once in a while. With a corn allergy that is almost
> impossible. He seems to be doing great on the enzymes but my main
> concern is the bed wetting. I did read that bed wetting can come back
> for some kids but I thought it would stop after three weeks. It has
> been around five weeks now and he is wetting almost every night. He
> did not even do that before we cut back on wheat. Does anyone have
> thoughts on this?
>

reply: I don't have thoughts on your initial question, but I thought I'd
respond, because I too have a son sensitive to corn, wheat, gluten, et
cetera. I have been having him treated at an alternative health clinic
with an allergy clearing technique that has really helped him a lot.
But, as I say this, I am still planning on keeping him on enzymes, as I
think they help and although the allergy clearing helps with allergies,
I don't think it takes care of digestive issues/absorbtion issues.

But we have started taking him to restaurants again - we just keep to
plain meat, plain salad with vinegar and oil and plain vegies. It
seems to help. Also, I heard recently there was a listing of some
gluten-free restaurants either in the New York times or on t.v. or
something, and I'm betting those would be better for other allergies
too - maybe someone knows the link I'm referring to and can post it.

Good luck - I know corn is in so many things, it's such a pain. My
son, with just a teeny tiny trace, gets very aggressive and nasty. I
can't stand when he gets corn.

reply from Dana (danasview.net): Bed wetting can be caused by food intolerance, and yeast overgrowth or
die off. Possibly also supplement intolerance.

and now me!  Yeast.. interesting... lots of these kids have yeast overgrowth, but I wouldn't think enzymes would help yeast (or would they?) in order to have yeast die-off. But I can see why it would be short-term (3 weeks) if it were yeast die-off, then it would be solved after that...

[Terri]

Re: enzymes and yeast

Some enzymes help to digest/break down the yeast itself - proteases break down the proteins that make up the bacteria, yeast, etc.

Other enzymes will break down food that can otherwise lay undigested in the intestines.  It's the undigested food that feeds the yeast and contributes to the overgrowth.  Adding enzymes can starve the yeast and it begins to die off.  The die off reactions can often be much worse than a "normal reaction" and people sometime abandon whatever protocol they've been trying because the 'cure' seems worse than the 'disease' itself.

Does that make sense?

This article explains it better than I can:

Enzymes and Bacteria, Yeast, and Parasites

[ives6797]

I know exactly what you mean, Terri. For example, when starting GFCF, we saw immediate results, but then after a week or two, we had some breakthroug/withdrawal tics. Some have said the same thing happens with seizures (for those that use diet to help seizures). Some people then think that the enzymes won't work and abandon, But it was a short stage and then they went back to working well. It does make sense then that it could be yeast and perhaps given time (3 weeks was suggested by that other person) that it could get better as the yeast situation improves.

[Caryn]

Thanks again.
Dawn, your copy and paste was very enlightening. We will do as the mom suggested when dining out. I think next year I will offer to host Easter at our house. Problem solved!

I do think the enzymes are great for widening his food choices at home, too.
You guys have been great in helping sort this stuff out. I do think the candida factor is a valid one and as Terri points out, something that kids with digestive issues have to 'keep in check' continually.