Magnesium....

[Caryn]

I think the Natural Calm Magnesium works without the fizz. But we have made a lot of changes since we started him on the vits last year. For one thing he used to be a dairy-o-holic before we went gluten and corn free. I read that calcium competes with magnesium, so a diet too high in calcium will hinder magnesium absorption. When we cut out the gluten and corn he magically began to desire the dairy less and less. Weird huh? he still likes cheese, though, and we have to watch that. I will allow it in small doses. We originally used Bonnie's vits with magnesium taurate (supposedly more easily absorbed than citrate), but we also switched to the citrate version in a compounded capsule that was designed to combat Tigger's pyroluria dx. Eventually the vits started to make him nauseated (not uncommon if the vits are designed to compliment a dietary problem that is corrected-- in our case the gluten sensitive enteropathy was causing deficiencies in the body). Once Tigger's gut healed it seemed like his dependence on the vits lessened. We do eat a lot of beans and nuts here, which are high in magnesium. So is spinach, which we really only eat cooked but I am working on changing that. I recently read that swiss chard is high in magnesium too. Wow-- sounds like the perfect veggie for Tourette Syndrome! LOL.
At any rate, I really feel that magnesium is one supplement that we all can benefit from as our food comes from depleted soils (unless we are eating organic from our own soil) and that magnesium is just a necessary supplement for nervous system health. I take it, my mom does, my husband, all our kids in small doses.
So to answer your question I think it works synergistically with the better diet. I do not give Tigger B6 doses anymore (another vit for TS and pyroluria). I felt that it did something to trigger a phenol sensitivity in him and also contributed to his nausea (along with the high zinc doses). We eat a lot of bananas here, fish, and chicken breast. I feel that for right now I have no urgent need to up the B6 as he is not ticcing at all. If symptoms flare up I will, of course, resume the vits (for the pyroluria). It is an hereditary condition that is closely tied to the gut and is triggered by outside stress in life. He may get symptomatic when 'stuff happens' in his life and need to resume vits for a period of time. I am always watching out for that, but so far he is doing great. I have to also mention, for anyone who gets a pyroluria dx that the healing time for that can be 2 days to 2 months with vits, depending on the severity. Tigger had a mild case, thankfully!

[Tami]

My son has a mild tic disorder.  He is low in b6 per testing, but does not have pyroluria.  I had repeatedly observed an improvement the day after pomegranate.  When they were no longer seasonally available, I switched to pomegranate juice, and there it was on the label -- just 4 ounces is 12% of the adult RDA of b6.

You may be asking yourself, "How did she know to give him this wonder fruit?  Was it telepathic?  Is she that in tune to his needs?"  The answer is no; I was just really really tired.  I figured if I put the kids in the bathtub and gave them each half of a pomegranate, it wouldn't stain the carpet or furniture and I could get some time to myself.  We now affectionately refer to pomegranate as "the babysitter" as I can sit in the bathroom doorway and read for 40 minutes while the kids are quietly harvesting and nibbling. 

The juice, however, is ferrociously expensive ($10 a jar) and affords me no freedom.  Does anyone know when pomegranate season begins?

[ives6797]

hmm well this is strange, I know I replied ot this but I don't see it.

well anyway, I had said that Anthony did drink the Kids Calm in OJ... BUT I messed up in buying 2 gallons of calcium OJ, which now I realize is a bad thing, because he shouldn't have calcium with his magnesium. I'll have to get to the store to buy some regular OJ...

[Caryn]

Tami,
LOL
We live in the midwest, so to answer your question pomegranate season is never in here. I think nationally they are only grown in sunny California. I did find Pomegranate juice at Trader Joe's a while back. It was really all natural, no added anything. The kids thought it was a bit too tart. Is that common? What does a fresh pomegranate taste like? How do you know when it is ripe? Is it like a pear as far as ripeness and softness?

Dawn,
I think that calcium is okay with magnesium. I know that they 'compete' with each other in the sense that if you have a diet high in calcium you will be magnesium deficient. Our Dan doctor 'prescribed' a calcium magnesium supplement for Tigger to be taken at bedtime (liquid, chalky stuff). He hated the stuff and so I stopped it. He much prefers Kefir mixed with magnesium and a little juice. We can't do the calcium enriched OJ for corn-related issues. He told us to get a 2:1 ratio, two parts magnesium, one part calcium. I doubt there is that much calcium in the OJ. BTW I am famous for doing that at the store. We have a special cabinet for my oops products. I have oops ketchups, mayonnaise, potato chips, and have had oops juices on a variety of occasions.
We avoid any juice with citric acid. There are some brands out there that we can get. One I just found at Costco. I can't remember the brand OTTOMH and I am upstairs with the boys (bedtime) waiting for them to fall asleep. I will post it later for anyone interested. It is a berry blend and is organic. Good price!

I just wanted to add that our Dan Doctor highly recommends Kirkman Lab's P5P with Magnesium Glycinate (capsules) because the P5P is an easily absorbed form of  B6 and these vits are gluten, casein, soy, and corn free.

[Tami]

Caryn,

I saw the Trader Joe's juice too.  You're right, it is organic and has no additives.  It is, however, made from concentrate and filtered water.  The Whole Foods one is organic and not reconstituted.  Normally I would buy the TJ's product for half price, but I am looking at this one as more of a supplement than a food, and I'm concerned something may be lost in the processing. 

It is very tart.  Remember, my kids acquired a taste for it from the fruit, so it was familiar to them.

A fresh pomegranate is really more toy than food.  It has a firm thick skin.  It contains about 150 fluid filled seeds which are slightly bigger than corn kernels.  They are deeply embedded in some white matter in the fruit.  Their membrane is very delicate, so they are like landmines.  They can squirt juice and stain anything in a five foot radius.  This is why my kids can only have them in the bathtub. 

Since picking the seeds out is very tedious and time-consuming, it is a lot like putting two kids in a tub and handing them each a rubix cube.  I am not exaggerating when I say it keeps them busy for 40 minutes.  I have been known to pay upwards of $3 an hour for "the babysitter." 

They are sold at Trader Joe's and Whole Foods, and I have never met one that was not ripe.

[ives6797]

I'll have to check this out sometime. Not sure if my son will eat it, but it's worth a try.

So the pom is for b6, right? Is it ok just to give b6 supplement? Seems easier, cheaper, and a lot less messy...? Or does it have something more than just the b6?

[Tami]

Ives,

I had no idea it had b6 at the time.  It was really just a "toy" I remembered from my own childhood.  I was supplementing b6 at the time, but still noticed a difference the morning after a pomegranate bath.  It may just be that this form is easier for him to absorb. 

I think that pomegranate also has some serious bacteriacidal properties like cranberry and is an exceptional anti-oxidant.  It could actually be related to those two things instead. 

[Caryn]

Okay,
I am totally sold on the idea. Next time we go to WF or TJs I will pick them up and you can be sure I will give them all a 'bath with a pomegranate' as soon as the sun goes down that day!
--this after spending the last hour cleaning up the house after my little tornadoes who are now both thankfully asleep! LOL.
Hm.... yes-- I can picture the peace and tranquility....
Now I only hope they like the taste!
Caryn
-- and yes, I do think that the whole foods are a better source of the nutrients than vits, when they are available and the child is willing to eat them. We have come a long way since our McTalty days last year. My then two year old would always know the Dunkin Donuts and McDonald's franchises and call them out to us in the car. Today he ate homemade coleslaw, grilled chicken, and a spinach salad without a fuss. Last year they would have just about starved before touching food like that.
If a kid is just not willing to jump on the bandwagon then the vits are the best alternative until the palate changes. I think I read somewhere that it takes 20 servings of a food until a child is willing to eat it. I also saw Dr. Oz's show the other night. They claim that peer pressure works wonders. If another kid eats it in front of your kid and says that he/she loves XXX then chances are your kid will too!

[ives6797]

That's one thing we struggle with, Caryn... but in the opposite way. My 6yo will immediately announce that something looks 'yucky' and she doesn't want it... then Anthony won't want to try it either! Then she tastes it and says 'it's gross!' I have talked to her about it a lot and she has gotten better... I try to get her to try it silently, and if she doesn't lilke it to just be quiet so her brother will try it too.

I will have Anthony try it when I find one, and hope he likes it.

Tami, what did you see improvement in, tics?

[Tami]

Ives,

Yes, tics.

One of our tools for getting the 5 and 7 year old  to try things is reverse psychology.  We will just eat or drink or swallow vitamins in front of the kids until they become interested.  Then we tell them they are for grown ups and debate at length whether they can have it or not.  We eventually give in and let them have it!  We got the 5 year old to swallow 5 horse pills this way.  He still thinks he outsmarted us.

This is horrible, but maybe you could let the 6 year old in on the plan.  "I know it's yucky.  Let's see if we can get Anthony to eat it though.  It will be our secret."  My 7 year old enjoys nothing more than pulling one on her brother.  You might even find her eating mass quantities of it just to get him to try it. 

Tami

[ives6797]

I'm not feeling very hopeful on the pom... I bought a small bottle of Pom Wonderful, 100% pom juice. I took a little taste of it and it is very tart, I don't envision Anthony drinking it... but I will try to maybe put a little bit of it in a glass of apple juice or something anyway just to try with him.

[Caryn]

Mix it with another more tasty juice. We've been doing it that way and they love it.

[ives6797]

I tried it in apple juice this morning and it was a no-go.

[ives6797]

I read this on another forum:

Someone mentioned the Magnesium.  These days when I notice my son ticcing, I can almost always  trace it back and realize he didn't take his Magnesium that day.  I didn't think Magnesium would be such an immediate effect, but on days he doesn't have his Magnesium, he tics and on days that he does have it he almost never tics.

I use "Nature's Sunshine" Magnesium Complex.  The ingredients list is: Magnesium sterate (vegetable), cellulose (plant fiber), silicon dioxide (powdered silica), gelatin, and water.

(I asked if it affects her son's bowels, as Magnesium is used as a laxative)

I do not have any reason to pay attention to his bowel movements, but he hasn't complained about anything.  He takes 1 per day (in the morning), but the the lady at the health food store said to give him 1 in the AM and 1 in the PM, with a meal.  I give 100 mg per day, 25% daily value.  The bottle says a serving size is 2 capsules (200 mg), but I only give one. 

Only problem is they aren't chewable. She thinks they could probably be opened and the contents poured into food/liquid.

[Caryn]

Dawn,
Ds does not like breakfast at all, so I have been making him smoothies every morning and he loves them. His favorite includes frozen mango (Trader Joes) with fresh banana (the kind that have got spots) with orange juice and/or rice milk, fresh apples, and magnesium, a little chlorophyll (I get the kind made from alfalfa leaves). What I end up getting is a green juice but it tastes great. The kids love it. I will also add Goat milk Kefir sometimes when I have it (at whole foods) and some cider vinegar if I can mask it. If it comes out a bit off tasting (as has happened to me often enough), I will add a little honey or maple syrup. Sometimes I will add an egg for protein. I don't add any protein powders. I have added veggies but I have found that the chlorophyll is safer flavor-wise and does the same thing. But just mango, bananas, oranges and almond/rice milk with added magnesium is a fantastic drink that the kids love. I always dissolve the magnesium in boiling water before adding it to the shake.